Sometimes, when You protagonist Joe Goldberg (Penn Badgley) is in charge of your education, you end up framed for murder, like the unfairly imprisoned Darcy College student Nadia Fareedi (Amy-Leigh Hickman). But, for Badgley, Joe has proven to be an invaluable teacher — in exactly how not to move through the world.
“Joe has helped me understand what it means to be a man, a husband, and a father at a deeper level,” he tells Tudum. “I’ve had to understand, not only just the obviously atrocious ways that he represents men, or husbands, or fathers. But also the small sins that we’re all guilty of.”
Badgley gathered with co-stars Charlotte Ritchie (who plays Kate Lockwood), Madeline Brewer (Bronte), Tati Gabrielle (Marienne Bellamy), Hickman, and Anna Camp (Reagan and Maddie Lockwood) on his podcast Podcrushed to discuss all of Joe’s transgressions. The group, joined by Badgley’s co-hosts Nava Kavelin and Sophie Ansari, nod towards Joe’s big crimes — like the murders of Guinevere Beck (Elizabeth Lail), Love Quinn (Victoria Pedretti), and many more — to the less obvious, yet equally insidious offenses, like Joe’s ability to weaponize his “wounded bird” charm into the ultimate manipulation tool. In Episode 9 of You’s fifth and final season, Kate, Marienne, and Nadia band together to finally reveal Joe’s monstrous behavior to the world; Bronte, inspired by a conversation with Marienne, finishes the job in the series finale.
“I did always hope that Marienne, for herself and her own closure, could have some part in taking Joe down,” Gabrielle said in the Podcrushed episode. In many ways, Marienne proves to be Joe’s longest relationship throughout You. Joe charms the kind Madre Linda librarian in Season 3, until she realizes the extent of his viciousness. Marienne attempts to escape him by fleeing all the way to Europe. But, in Season 4, Joe still manages to abduct and cage her in London; Marienne is only freed thanks to Nadia’s wits. Finally, in Season 5, Marienne returns to convince Bronte not to fall for Joe’s tricks. “Justice is something that’s very important to her … So to have her own hand in taking that justice back? I was really excited to be able to do that,” Gabrielle continued.
Joe’s ultimate punishment — castration and imprisonment — is only possible thanks to the work of the women who survived him. By the end of You, Joe is a pariah the globe over. “It was really important to me that Joe finally be seen as a sexual predator. I don’t say that lightly,” Badgley says. “We all know that’s what he is. But we tend to artfully dance around it or forget it because he can be so charming. So the show finally had to really deconstruct that part of his personality.”
You’s final image of Joe, behind bars with his hair completely shorn,, certainly drives home that message. While Joe refuses to accept the truth about himself, the women he belittled, stalked, assaulted, and confined move on with their lives. Nadia returns to her writing and starts teaching; Maddie creates the family she always wanted with her late twin’s husband, Harrison (Pete Ploszek); Kate gets back into art; Marienne becomes a globally beloved painter; and Bronte — or should we say Louise? — takes over You’s narration duties. Joe only has prison love letters to read, without the touch of a woman to come with them.
“We dismantle Joe as this heroic and romantic figure at the center of You. So, we give the narrative baton to the female protagonists — all of whom have been his victims,” Badgley says. “They’ve lived and can still tell their story. Bronte has more compelling things to say and do than he does. And she has a future that's legitimate whereas Joe doesn’t.”
So what else do Badgley and the women of You have to say? Watch the entire Podcrushed roundtable interview here — and, keep coming back to Tudum for all of your Joe Goldberg news.
Additional reporting by Chancellor Agard.
