At The Lineup: Live at the Egyptian, Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery director Rian Johnson joined the stage with a few of his collaborators to discuss the latest installment of his Benoit Blanc whodunnits. In the new film, Detective Blanc visits an upstate New York village where a seemingly impossible murder has rocked a local parish. Johnson, his producing partner Ram Bergman, cast members Kerry Washington, Mila Kunis, and Cailee Spaeny, and casting directors Mary Vernieu and Bret Howe discussed the communal effort of bringing this new Blanc tale to the screen.

An edited version of the conversation follows.

Mary Vernieu, Ram Bergman, Mila Kunis, Rian Johnson, Cailee Spaeny, Kerry Washington, and Bret Howe

Henry Goldblatt: Rian, this is your third Benoit Blanc film, and tonally it’s very different from the first two. What made you want to explore these new themes?

Rian Johnson: Part of what’s fun about murder mysteries to me is that they can be so many different things. After the big, broad, fun vacation mystery in Glass Onion, Daniel [Craig] and I talked about how it would be fun to ground the next one. So this one explores faith a little bit, and it tonally goes to more of an Edgar Allan Poe, Washington Irving type of place. It goes to gothic horror, but it’s still funny, I hope.

In putting all these films together, how do you explore these different themes and still make them feel like part of one universe?

Johnson: You put Daniel Craig with that accent in the movies and you’re in that universe pretty quick. I don’t really think about creating a unified universe. Really, I’m thinking of them the same way Agatha Christie thought about her novels, which is each one is a different story, each one’s a different experience. And just like Christie, I’m hoping to try very different things with each one.

For the actors here, what drew you to the project? 

Kerry Washington: What drew me to the project were these other two films before. I’m such a huge fan of Rian’s and of this universe, and you hear in Hollywood that making these films is so much fun, that it’s like camp, that you make friends you’re going to have for the rest of your life. It’s all true. Making this film was even more fun than I thought it could be, than I dreamt it could be. The idea of working with this cast on this material with these producers and this director, it just was too good of an opportunity to pass up. I think most of us would’ve said yes without reading the script. Just the opportunity to be in this camp, in this world, is so special.

Mila Kunis: I’ve said this before, but I think I asked to be in this movie. Rian’s laughing!

Johnson: Demanded!

Kunis: But I did. I really did. I cast myself, I think, before Rian did, and I did read the script and I was like, “Yep, I’ll do it.” And he went, “You should read the script.” So I get this magical script and I’m like, “OK, I’ll do it.” This is the greatest series to be part of. It really is, and it’s so fun. And Rian and Ram make the environment so inviting and exciting, and it really does feel like playing pretend. Everything about it is beautiful. The sets are beautiful. The people are beautiful. The experience is amazing. I honestly was like, “I don’t care what character it is, I’ll just do it.”

Cailee Spaeny: What’s so beautiful is that even though it’s an ensemble piece, Rian made sure to give each character such unique, beautiful, tender moments. It’s not just an incredibly entertaining film with another twist that you never see coming, but it’s also exploring something very nuanced and complicated.

I think, at the end, what I felt is that it’s a hopeful ending that believes in the kindness of people. And it was just such a treat. I mean, especially being the youngest one on set, it was heaven. And then in between I got private cello lessons on top of everything. It genuinely was like summer camp, and everyone was so good to each other, to me, and hanging out in our tents and eating snacks and taking naps — it was a real dreamy experience.

Ram, you and Rian have worked together for more than two decades. What is your creative shorthand since your first film, Brick?

Ram Bergman: He’s so clear about what he wants to do and has an idea of what the movie’s going to be, and he’s able to communicate to the entire cast and crew in a very clear way, which makes my life so much easier. Plus, we have so much trust between us. We just want to make the best movie and make sure we have the best experience in making the movie for us and for everyone around us.

Each film doles out just a little bit more of Benoit Blanc's character. How do you decide what to dole out this time around? 

Johnson: Well, I’m grateful Daniel feels the same way. I mean, Blanc is a detective, and he’s there to solve the case, and what you learn about him, you learn through him doing that. Never say never, I guess, but I never found it interesting, the idea of cutting to a flashback of Benoit Blanc as a kid and why he was a detective or something. I think that in solving the case, it’s largely his relationships with the people. It’s his relationships with the suspects, it’s his relationship with Josh O'Connor's character, Father Jud. And that’s how you end up learning a little bit more about Blanc each time.

Washington: We should say, Daniel Craig is an extraordinary leader, and the collaboration between Ram and Rian and Daniel — to create an environment that is really conducive to courage and creativity and taking risks — is really such a special thing. Daniel brings humility and service and gratitude and joy to what we’re doing. And I know part of that is because he loves his character so much and these opportunities that you give them to take on these stories and these worlds. He shares that with everybody so elegantly.

This series is known for incredible ensembles. When you began casting this, what was the first question you asked yourself about this group of characters?

Mary Vernieu: Everyone wants to work with Rian, so it’s really an embarrassment of riches. It’s all about putting together a really balanced group of people that we know fit well in the world. And Rian is super collaborative. It’s always been an amazing creative experience.

When casting this large ensemble, how do you think about making sure that the chemistry’s just right? 

Bret Howe: All of these actors have such an amazing body of work, and we know them so well. Really, it’s [creating] a palette with people. It’s such a treat to cast these films.

Kerry, you’ve been on a lot of sets. What stood out about Rian as a director and a leader on set?

Washington: I am blown away by Rian’s ability to make every single actor feel like the most important part of the story. Here he is, balancing all these elements, all these storylines, all of these effects, all these dynamics and locations. But he carved out time to talk to every single actor about our particular arc and what we might need and any notes we had about the script and just the attention to detail at every level. I know the actors felt that way, but so did every department head, and so did every member of the crew. He’s so generous and able to juggle so many elements of what it means to be a great director. So special.

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